@cwebber @jfred @dthompson @ekaitz_zarraga @civodul I know you meant hygiene in a "macro hygiene" sense but it also works in a "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been" hygiene sense as well

@jfred @cwebber @dthompson @ekaitz_zarraga @civodul it was such a relief when Clojure deprecated non-prefixed imports; being able to tell at a glance whether a given identifier is local or not may add a tiny bit of verbosity but the extra clarity more than makes up for it

@cwebber honestly I used to think this too, but after spending decades in Clojure where the fact that it's not baked in means that every time you want to do something halfway decent in a new codebase you have to argue with your coworkers about bringing in a third-party library ... it's just not worth the headache of leaving it out of core

racket made the right call; make it built-in, let everyone benefit

just because it's technically possible to do in userspace doesn't mean you should; it's as much a community/convention/style problem as a technical one

surely we can do better

sorry/not sorry

had a "hey just so you know that username you chose is pronounced the same as a racial slur in my country; do you think you could change it?" moment in a chat channel I moderate. thankfully it was well received.

to be fair, keeping track of all the words people in my country use for their racism is maybe a lot to ask for someone who grew up speaking another language.

@civodul @cwebber the reason I'm always skeptical of these efforts is that to me it always seems like people designing for someone else.

like ... I have no idea how to design a notation for programmers who for some reason hate parens, because I can't even begin to understand where they are coming from and what it is about the current notation they don't like.

I can only do a good job at designing things that are meant to be used by for people like me, or I have to (at least in some sense) become a different kind of person.

difficult decorating decision: Spock on the top would be a great fit, but Kirk's uniform has a more fitting color

@jk obligatory Monkey Island I guess

this is the fourth text editor I've written in Fennel. I spent the least amount of time on it, but it's the most usable. I'm pretty sure the lesson to be learned here is how cheating is awesome and you should always do it?

I was messing about with "lite", a text editor written in about 1000 lines of C and 4000 lines of Lua: I ran my antifennel compiler over it to turn all the Lua into #fennel code to see how it would run. I ended up finding a couple bugs in antifennel, but once I fixed them it ran pretty smoothly with minimal need for changes!

I present: fite

https://git.sr.ht/~technomancy/fite

@alexjgriffith so it's theoretically optional, right? but on the other hand, if the people designing the system were so confused as to think first class functions not worth including in the language, what else did they get catastrophically wrong? dunno.

@charlag @alexjgriffith to me Lua shows that first class functions don't have to be confusing or weird, unless you already come from a background that disallows them. in my experience teaching new programmers it's never seen as strange or confusing on its own.

@alexjgriffith did you use gdscript? some things about Godot look good but I can't get over how bad gdscript looks.

@charlag @alexjgriffith yeah, that's consistent with my understanding that it depends completely on your background. often the primary difficulty in learning a new language is unlearning the limitations which no longer apply that you never even consciously recognized but still shaped your thinking.

@Little__Ham @eletrotupi it's really funny how many people see the problem of "wow a lot of people sure make bad web pages" and come up with "so let's replace the web" instead of "so let's make web pages that aren't bad" huh

@jiaming you love to see it

https://github.com/technomancy/thai-type/blob/master/thai-type.rkthttps://p.hagelb.org/indonesian.fnl.html

@theruran @nasser @jiaming @feonixrift yeah I'm working on a structural editor for fennel which could make this kind of remapping doable, but of course as the talk explains, the real problem is the wider ecosystem and getting library authors to buy into the idea of decoupling names from values.

https://git.sr.ht/~technomancy/anarres

@theruran the common thread here seems to be Elon Musk

got our #lispgamejam entry coming together a lot faster than previous ones did; it's feeling pretty solid and this is just day 3